Sonic-speed
Well-Known Member
The rubber-tubes going down the exhaust.
stage6 rear suspension
- Thread starter LOSMAN
- Start date
The rubber-tubes going down the exhaust.
Sonic-speed
Well-Known Member
No no, the engine for "water-scooters" that you made/put together.
Sonic-speed
Well-Known Member
Lol, read what i said in first place. Of course the hoses are high-temp. I talk about the strips you use mounting the silicone hoses, that's sucks.
Hi,
this is out reply to a similar discussion in another forum:
Hi Bidstrup,
this is an old discussion.
The time we just "branded" products is many years before !
We have a quite big R&D department with engineers involved in developping parts.
Same like Malossi, Polini, Metrakit.. do, they develop together with other companys.
For example Malossi develop the RS24 together with Paioli... there are many shocks made by Paioli they look similar, but internals are adapted to suit on the Piaggio Zip.
Malossi only has a very little production in house, they cast the variators outside and just machine and pack them inside.
Below you can see a picture of Malossi exhaust production in Ungary ! The bodys are made in this company, the final assembling is made in Italy, so they can write "made in Italy" on the parts... even if the main production is made in east-europe for lower costs reasons...
On some products it is the same way we work. We have manufacturers in many countrys and do the cooperation with them. We have production in Italy, Germany, Spain, Ungary, Japan and Taiwan.
Depending on the parts we need, the costs, the quality, the knowhow of production, we decide where to make the parts. In winter time Freddy Koopmans spend some month in Taiwan to develop parts there. We have all racing scooters there for testing, and since the climate there is much better than in Europe during winter, we can speed up the testing a lot !
You may know that the Japanese and Taiwanese scooter riders are one of the fastest riders in the world, scooter racing is very well developped there. So you can also find very high quality companys who are involved in production of tuning parts.
Many of the parts from Polini and Metrakit are also done in that country.
The biggest problem for companys from europe is, that the existing bikes in Asia are complete different from the bike here in Europe ! They do not ride 2-stroke bikes any more ! So there is a huge need to develop parts by yourself...
Sometimes we do the development and than share the production (also known as joint ventures !). Some of the european traders (not developpers), they just buy existing parts like shock absorbers and sell them for european models... that`s absolutely crap !! For example... most popular scooter in Japan and TW is the Yamaha Cygnus. The Cygnus has double shocks in the rear... if you fit that shocks to an Aerox... the damping is completely incorrect. So there is always a need of been involved in the developpment instead f just branding !!!
But to come back to your point.
For the front suspensions, we work with RPM company. The design is made by them and baed on Yamaha Cygnus. But the setup is completely changed by us to make them fit to Yamaha Aerox (and now we are working on versions for Booster, Malaguti F12, Runne...). To fit them to Aerox, we need to shorten the whole outside and change the inside parts... also the spring has been shortened and the load been changed. The axle has been adapted, also the bottom mounting rised. Finally we need to modify the bracked to take the original caliper and 4-piston caliper !
In total we spend over 8 month in developpment and changing/testing the setup !
The rear R/T shock absorber is not made by RPM... RPM they have some similar absorbers... and some are adapted from Öhlins designs !
But also for the rear shock absorbers... the parts we made for Zip and Aerox takes OVER 1 year of testing and developping to make them suitable for our race scooters !!! As you can see on all the development threads in this section... you can easy follow the process of the development we are doing... like now working on the front shock for Zip... since the Zip front fork is very special designed, we can not adapt an existing design, but have to develop a complete new one !!!
Hope this will clear questions....
@waxhead: about the price discussion... almost no one here in Europe ride a Yamaha Cygnus. The item is sold in high quantity in Asia and therefore the prices are very reasonable. But you can not use them on our scooters here ! So, it doesn`t make sense to promote this here... As described here already... we was highly involved to make the parts for European models... and therefore have contracts with the manufacturers to be the exclusive agent for Europe. The higher prices here covers the costs for development and testing, the quantitys we made for Zip or Aerox are quite small compared the quantitys which are sold for Cygnus. And the prices are much lower than products from competitors.
cheers
this is out reply to a similar discussion in another forum:
Hi Bidstrup,
this is an old discussion.
The time we just "branded" products is many years before !
We have a quite big R&D department with engineers involved in developping parts.
Same like Malossi, Polini, Metrakit.. do, they develop together with other companys.
For example Malossi develop the RS24 together with Paioli... there are many shocks made by Paioli they look similar, but internals are adapted to suit on the Piaggio Zip.
Malossi only has a very little production in house, they cast the variators outside and just machine and pack them inside.
Below you can see a picture of Malossi exhaust production in Ungary ! The bodys are made in this company, the final assembling is made in Italy, so they can write "made in Italy" on the parts... even if the main production is made in east-europe for lower costs reasons...
On some products it is the same way we work. We have manufacturers in many countrys and do the cooperation with them. We have production in Italy, Germany, Spain, Ungary, Japan and Taiwan.
Depending on the parts we need, the costs, the quality, the knowhow of production, we decide where to make the parts. In winter time Freddy Koopmans spend some month in Taiwan to develop parts there. We have all racing scooters there for testing, and since the climate there is much better than in Europe during winter, we can speed up the testing a lot !
You may know that the Japanese and Taiwanese scooter riders are one of the fastest riders in the world, scooter racing is very well developped there. So you can also find very high quality companys who are involved in production of tuning parts.
Many of the parts from Polini and Metrakit are also done in that country.
The biggest problem for companys from europe is, that the existing bikes in Asia are complete different from the bike here in Europe ! They do not ride 2-stroke bikes any more ! So there is a huge need to develop parts by yourself...
Sometimes we do the development and than share the production (also known as joint ventures !). Some of the european traders (not developpers), they just buy existing parts like shock absorbers and sell them for european models... that`s absolutely crap !! For example... most popular scooter in Japan and TW is the Yamaha Cygnus. The Cygnus has double shocks in the rear... if you fit that shocks to an Aerox... the damping is completely incorrect. So there is always a need of been involved in the developpment instead f just branding !!!
But to come back to your point.
For the front suspensions, we work with RPM company. The design is made by them and baed on Yamaha Cygnus. But the setup is completely changed by us to make them fit to Yamaha Aerox (and now we are working on versions for Booster, Malaguti F12, Runne...). To fit them to Aerox, we need to shorten the whole outside and change the inside parts... also the spring has been shortened and the load been changed. The axle has been adapted, also the bottom mounting rised. Finally we need to modify the bracked to take the original caliper and 4-piston caliper !
In total we spend over 8 month in developpment and changing/testing the setup !
The rear R/T shock absorber is not made by RPM... RPM they have some similar absorbers... and some are adapted from Öhlins designs !
But also for the rear shock absorbers... the parts we made for Zip and Aerox takes OVER 1 year of testing and developping to make them suitable for our race scooters !!! As you can see on all the development threads in this section... you can easy follow the process of the development we are doing... like now working on the front shock for Zip... since the Zip front fork is very special designed, we can not adapt an existing design, but have to develop a complete new one !!!
Hope this will clear questions....
@waxhead: about the price discussion... almost no one here in Europe ride a Yamaha Cygnus. The item is sold in high quantity in Asia and therefore the prices are very reasonable. But you can not use them on our scooters here ! So, it doesn`t make sense to promote this here... As described here already... we was highly involved to make the parts for European models... and therefore have contracts with the manufacturers to be the exclusive agent for Europe. The higher prices here covers the costs for development and testing, the quantitys we made for Zip or Aerox are quite small compared the quantitys which are sold for Cygnus. And the prices are much lower than products from competitors.
cheers
Last edited:
apriliafan
Well-Known Member
waxhead...
For some reason a few posts of mine are deleted ^^
Anyway,i wonder what waxhead has to say to thilos statement ^^
Speechless?
For some reason a few posts of mine are deleted ^^
Anyway,i wonder what waxhead has to say to thilos statement ^^
Speechless?
Thilo i realise the rear isnt made by rpm
I know the front is
I only ever came on here just to join in the thread and show the suspension i have and that it was the same , ie my front suspension
My suspension is on an aerox as well , it was modified to fit an aerox by rpm as well
I have no desire to market them in europe i never did, it was only getting nasty becuase of people like aprilliafan going nuts in here
Im sorry but he has done more damage to your company than i could ever do if i even wanted to
I know the front is
I only ever came on here just to join in the thread and show the suspension i have and that it was the same , ie my front suspension
My suspension is on an aerox as well , it was modified to fit an aerox by rpm as well
I have no desire to market them in europe i never did, it was only getting nasty becuase of people like aprilliafan going nuts in here
Im sorry but he has done more damage to your company than i could ever do if i even wanted to
Sonic-speed
Well-Known Member
Finally it's an fact that the RPM shock isn't the exact same as the s6 one (like we said RIGHT from the beginning) and then all you can do is to provoke Apriliafan?
You was such an smart ass, both on this forum, and the one you shared your project in. I hope you feel real bad, talking such about someone else, and then you being wrong.
But thanks anyway, always good with a conversation, and even better with some usefully information drawn to it!
And BTW, how on earth can you know about Aprilifan in addition to SA? he is one of the people that has promoted the s6 brand and SA the most in all of Europe (Spain, Germany, England and Denmark).
Listen idiot
they said there shock was modified to make it fit an aerox correct???
well what sort of scoot do you think my front forks are on , a fooking vespa
opps sp maybe mine are modified to fit an aerox as well
Stage6 has proved me right
Seriously you guys just dont know when to leave it alone
I really dont give a damn if you think i am a smart ass or what
it means nothing to me at all
Regarding aprilla fan his conduct in this thread has been enough for people to pm me saying they will not buy off stage6 if this is the sort of people they sponsor or associate with
Anyway i am out of this thread now , i will leave you guys to bitch on a bit longer
they said there shock was modified to make it fit an aerox correct???
well what sort of scoot do you think my front forks are on , a fooking vespa
opps sp maybe mine are modified to fit an aerox as well
Stage6 has proved me right
Seriously you guys just dont know when to leave it alone
I really dont give a damn if you think i am a smart ass or what
it means nothing to me at all
Regarding aprilla fan his conduct in this thread has been enough for people to pm me saying they will not buy off stage6 if this is the sort of people they sponsor or associate with
Anyway i am out of this thread now , i will leave you guys to bitch on a bit longer
Sonic-speed
Well-Known Member
So you say that Thilo is lying? OMG
And btw, the discussion has never been about the fork. It was about weather the RPM and the s6 shock was the same, you said so, and we said the opposite. Thilo proved us right!
But i guess you cannot admit anything old man!
apriliafan
Well-Known Member
no one will miss you.No1 ever mentioned that i get sponsered of stage6 neither that i m cooperating with them.
I just like to have clear facts and cant stand if ppl say shit about stage6 which often aint true.
A company like stage6 do what ever they can to make things right.Compared to Malossi,Metrakit and so on,Stage 6 is quiet a young firm and did many things which deserve some respect.You dont like them or u think its too expensive?
Well thats your point of view,but we have totally other conditions here in europe.
This speculations or doubts of stage6 products come probably because stage6 lets the community know how things were done and show their process officially.No wonder that people like you find always things to criticate(which is totally normal).Other companies dont let the ppl know till its done.
Therefore Stage6 receives often this "feedback" and "doubts" about their work.
I ve been continously following the process of stage6 and i m active in many forums and countries thanks to my languages and I really dont care if people offend me(as long as their right)..i mean there will be always haters,...what can I do?
I dont need to prove u also nothing cuz no matter how u think about me personal,at least
I try to give "them" something back with my projects...I m active in the scooterszene now since 2003 and know enough ppl and I dont need people here to come and prove me that i am right cuz i simply knew the truth...Of course I could have been wrong...
You are not the only one who doubt and suggested that they were identical,and no1 blaims u for it as long as u let it as a "suggest",but u kept talking like the things u were saying were facts and that made me go nuts because u had no guarantee that u were right and I did.
I guess for that u r a bit too short into the european szene no matter how many engine u have made.I
I mean my behavior u COULD relate to my age but u?being 40 years old and trying to act like u d know "all" better?
This forum is ment to have convos and discuss about certain things and I apologize to u and some others with my incorrect way of expressing. I see it was maybe not the nice way to answer but at the end u see that Thilo proved Sonic Speed and me right and that was all what we were talking about,that they were not equal.
Even the best keep learning from others,so u do!
Well at the end i m wondering why u just dont admit that u were wrong?This wouldnt make u look less professional,just honesty..
If not,this all just has been pathetic...
I m outta here and GLAD to have and paid for a Stage 6 Shock...
Peace
Sonic-speed
Well-Known Member
Hey look, your bike has the same mounting brackets (don't know the exact term) for the rear shock (wont be surprised if fork also fit) like mine Yamaha Cygnus, how funny, what a surprise he he.
Waxhead: Can you confirm that your shock is made for Aerox, and not Cygnus? the visual look of the shock is the same you know.
As you can see, the RPM products made for Cygnus, also fit on Aerox. They might perform good also, but aren't mend for "1 shock system scooters"
Waxhead: Can you confirm that your shock is made for Aerox, and not Cygnus? the visual look of the shock is the same you know.
As you can see, the RPM products made for Cygnus, also fit on Aerox. They might perform good also, but aren't mend for "1 shock system scooters"
Sonic-speed
Well-Known Member
According to Thilo the design is made by RPM, but "we" change it totally to fit Yahama Aerox.
Now, did RPM only make the parts fit, like they say in the email, or did they also make the inner adjustments like Thilo said they make on the s6 ones.
Now, did RPM only make the parts fit, like they say in the email, or did they also make the inner adjustments like Thilo said they make on the s6 ones.
Yes they changed the spring rate for a lighter bike -12kgs
But then if you were to get right into it
spring rate is a thing for total weight of bike and rider
so no company can say this is the ultimate spring setup for any scooter
because the rider is such a large percentage of the bike weight compared to other vehicles
and when you change the spring rate then you have to change the dampening as well
I guess what i am saying is that if you want to go and race then you need to set the suspension up for your weight track tyres and a major one , your riding style
thats the whole idea about having adjustable shocks
But then if you were to get right into it
spring rate is a thing for total weight of bike and rider
so no company can say this is the ultimate spring setup for any scooter
because the rider is such a large percentage of the bike weight compared to other vehicles
and when you change the spring rate then you have to change the dampening as well
I guess what i am saying is that if you want to go and race then you need to set the suspension up for your weight track tyres and a major one , your riding style
thats the whole idea about having adjustable shocks
Sonic-speed
Well-Known Member
Agree about that, it's pure fact. I have been into racing scooters since 04' and been all over europe for racing. The 24 h. race @ spa in Belgium, SA week in Germany, not to mention Denmark which is my home country lol. So it seems to me that i know whats worth to know about suspension, though it's such a sophisticated topic/problem to solve, so many factors plays an important role.
But back to the topic, okay so the shock is prepared for your bike with another preload-spring.
According to Thilo, the s6 team did not only changed that one, they changed a whole list of things. So in some way the your shock cant be the same like the s6 one, but it can certainly be very good.
