Gilera Runner SP 180cc VIRUS - Needs Solution

[trueOverrev]

HI GUYS,

I'am planning to build another project and hopefully this will be my last scooter. Basically I need a scooter that has INSTANT power with less modification on the engine. It needs to be realible, everyday use, can withstand long rides and the punishing warm temperature in the Philippines.

I have experienced engines from 50cc, 70cc , and 78cc. All of them has the power output that i was expecting however the realibility issue and the cost of maintenance is taking its toll.

I think Gilera Runner 180cc is the way to go since it has 21HP Instant Power on its stock engine. Here is my plan, please advise and guide me on my wishlist and expectations.

Stock Cylinder Kit - just some polishing on the port transfers
Stock Crankshaft
Malossi MHR Pipe
25mm Dellorto Carb - as long as it will fit the stock airbox
Malossi VL13 Reedvalve
Malossi Variator
Malossi Delta Clutch
Malossi Torque Drive
Malossi Torsion Controller
Malossi Gearing
Malossi Digitronic CDI

HP Expectation - 30HP
TUNER: tiba karotsu

I'am also contemplating on 55mm BGM EVO Stroker Crankshaft - however I want to try running it on Stock Crankshaft and see if the torque that i want is there.

PLease feel free to edit my engine wishtlist to hit my GOAL interms of the HP.

SUSPENSION and BRAKING:

Here is the most expensive part.

Front: Malossi F36 vs F32S ---dont know what to choose
Rear: Malossi RS24/10
Front Disc : Malossi Whoop Disc 250mm
Rear : ???? I dont know my options
Caliper: Stage6 4 Piston Caliper
Lever: Brembo Radial Master Cylinder 16X18 - just for the front

I want to have the BEST SUSPENSION and RIDING COMFORT for LONG RIDES. Not too mention in only 5"4 in height and weights 110lbs. It needs to be fully adjustable to fit my riding pleasure. I dont know the difference between the F36 vs F32S other than the Price and diameter. F36 has 36mm and F32 has 33mm if im not mistaken. Most of the runners on the net has F32S forks. I wonder why. Since these parts are so EXPENSIVE, what are my chances in getting used parts that are in good condition?

I do appreciate all the inputs that you guys will share.
Have a wonderful day.

 

[gigio34]

Hi,
i agree on your choice of gilera runner 180 as fast and reliable scooter.
just few suggestion regarding the points on the ENGINE MODIFICATION:
-not mentioned parts: ok
-Malossi Variator: ok but there're better variators (pinasco or polini)
-Malossi Delta Clutch: not necessary, the original one is good, just change the small springs with harder ones
-Malossi Torque Drive: not so important, the difference it can give is not worthy the money. original is ok
Malossi Torsion Controller: most useless, better use a "real" spring slyder like the one supplied with pinasco or bettella variator
-Malossi Gearing: also original could be ok. however it might be worthy for riducing friction.
Malossi Digitronic CDI: not important, the original is also ok since the engine won't need high rev

SUSPENSION and BRAKING:

Front: Malossi F36 vs F32S ---dont know what to choose.--> F36 it's the best, fully adjustable but very expensive. F32 has only spring and extension adjustment, anyway it's ok for road use. a less expensive alternative it's to use a standard 4 stroke fork, cheap reliable and not bad even on track.
Rear: Malossi RS24/10 --> Very expensive, you can find better choice for less money in the market like RPM G-Plus, GII Plus or Stage6 or RRGS.
Front Disc : Malossi Whoop Disc 250mm --> Braking is less expensive and has very good floating disc. If you buy the F36 it's already equipped with the front disc.
Rear : ???? I dont know my options --> Braking
Caliper: Stage6 4 Piston Caliper --> Ok, but you've to make yourself the support for the caliper. RPM produce the same caliper and it's cheaper.
Lever: Brembo Radial Master Cylinder 16X18 - just for the front --> RPM produce good Radial cylinder, 17mm, you can buy for less than half the price of a Brembo.

i'd add also the BGM Additional Arm for the engine, it's costly but really worthy. more stability, more stifness of the engine (these engines are easy to get crack in the basement) and possibility to add the second shock (if the newer frames).


general tips:

1) "big block" 180cc piaggio is not a high rev engine, you don't need to modify it using the same standard used for 50-70cc engines
2) not all malossi parts are worthy the high price you've to pay for them...
3) if check well on the market without buying all malossi parts you can save a lot and get very good quality for money. and with the money you've saved you can buy other parts!

 

[trueOverrev]

@gigio34

Thank You for your feedback and very informative information. I will sure take your advise in great consideration especially in transmission area. RPM/AP/SHARK makes good quality product from Taiwan. I fully agree on that and no questions asked.

It is very difficult to buy their products. I did send them email numeous times however i did not get any reply from them.

I guess I dont know the right people.

Should I go with 55mm BGM Crank to reach my goal of 30HP?

 

[gigio34]

regarding the RPM and other Taiwanese brands you should try to find a local distributor, normally these factories they do not deal directly with small client.
anyway if you're interested you may contact me in pm, i can provide and ship taiwanese scooter parts from Hong Kong o every country.
unfortunately for Piaggio there isn't much choice, most of products are for yamaha/minarelli.

regarding the max power you may get from your engine, if you plan a daily use of your runner i think you should forget 30 "real" hp .
to reach this kind of power at your rear wheel you should make an extreme modification of the engine and you'd lose the reliability you need for daily use and/or long trips.
if i were you i'd settle for the modification you've mentioned above (with stock shaft): i believe you'd get 24-25 "healthy" hp with a lot of torque and plenty of reliability!

 

[trueOverrev]

Thank You for the offer. Sure thing i will send you pm, when im ready to buy the parts i needed.

PM Tuning Support Arm Brace
PM Tuning Clutch Bell
Polini Speed Variator 9 Rollers
Polini Center Spring
Polini Extra Rollers
Betttella Ball Bearings
SKF Bearings

are now part of my wishlist.

IF 30HP is not attainable as my GOAL and so be it.

Realibility is my Priority, second is Handling and finally Power.
25-27HP with tons of Torque should be enough.


I will try to look for a used Paiggio X9 500 Radiator.
Temperature in the Philippines is very warm especially in the Summer and driving in the traffic city just kills the engine and very prone to over heating.

All parts does not necessarily mean brandnew. I try to hunt used parts most particularly on the suspension and braking since they cost an arm and a leg.

 

[Big B NRG]

Why not keep it bone stock and have it adjusted perfectly?
That's the cheapest, most reliable and will still hit 140 kpmh.

 

[trueOverrev]

Why not keep it bone stock and have it adjusted perfectly?
That's the cheapest, most reliable and will still hit 140 kpmh.

thats the play. just several modifications on the transmission. mainly on the variator ( Polini ) and Pipe ( Roost Pipe )

The rest is on suspension and braking.

just want to add a little kick.

 

[Edwin]

if you gonna drive long distances, with warm temperatures,
why don't you consider build a 4 stroke 200-250cc

Got good power, en is far more reliable on the long distances.

A stock 180cc engine has about 14hp, and if tuned it will be around 20-23hp.
If you want about 30hp, you have to bolt on the expensive fabrizi kit
wich is not smart to drive with on the streets everyday, because it's a racing cilinder.

that would be the same to go drive everyday with a malossi speed.
It's to high rev'd for your purpose.

 

[trueOverrev]

Thank You for your Reply Edwin. 4Stroke is not an option for me, although i know its the best candidate that i need. 4Stroke in the philippines are everywhere. But I'am a diehard 2 stroke fanatic. The 2stroke sound is my IPOD that gives endless music to my ears.

From what i heard the Gilera Runner 180cc SP ( 2Stroke ) has 21HP on its stock form. Atleast thats what i had been reading on other scooter reviews. My goal on 30HP has been changed. Since only minor modifications will be done so that it will stay realible for long everyday and long drives.

STOCK Cylinder Head - just a little polishing
STOCK Crankshaft - maybe just changing the side bearing to SKF
STOCK Torque Drive
STOCK Clutch - just stiffer springs
Polini Variator
Polini Center Spring
Bettella Variaotor Ball Bearing Spring
Polini Reedvalve
25mm Dellorto Carb + STOCK AIRBOX
ROOST Pipe - already emailed Marko B.


Malossi F36 - Front Shock
Rear Shock - S6 or RS24/10 or Bitubo
Braking Rear Disc
Brembo Radial Master Cylinder 16X18

BGM or PM Tuning Arm Brace Engine Bracket
Piaggio X9 500 Radiator


What is the major effect in changing the crankshaft to BGM55mm Stroker? Aside from Higher displacement and Torque what will it benefit the engine and what is the downside of this?

 

[Edwin]

you will need a higher cilinder (in lenght) because of the longer stroke.

The original crankshaft is very strong, and if in good shape
you can use it for your purpose.

I got around 22hp with my 180cc engine, with a malossi cilinder, 28mm carburettor and a expansion exhaust build by ABT.
that was with stock transmission and a stock crankshaft.
Engine makes 8500rpm @ topspeed.

 

[trueOverrev]

https://www.pmtuning.co.uk/index2.htm

PRO STREET Cylinder Kit 25HP



very interesting especially the description that its for the street.

 

[Big B NRG]

you will need a higher cilinder (in lenght) because of the longer stroke.

The original crankshaft is very strong, and if in good shape
you can use it for your purpose.

I got around 22hp with my 180cc engine, with a malossi cilinder, 28mm carburettor and a expansion exhaust build by ABT.
that was with stock transmission and a stock crankshaft.
Engine makes 8500rpm @ topspeed.

You can raise the cylinder with a spacer. The thing is that with the bigger stroke you will need to mill down all the ports (piston will travel more distance).

That prostreet cylinder kit looks like a nice kit! That's how it should be stock. That might be your best option.

 

[Edwin]

it's the stroke that's longer, not the conrod
so you can't fix that by placing a spacer under the cilinder.

 

[Big B NRG]

it's the stroke that's longer, not the conrod
so you can't fix that by placing a spacer under the cilinder.

Offcourse you can. If the stock stroke is 52mm and the bigger stroke 55mm, the piston travels 1,5mm further each way.

So using a 1,5mm spacer + grinding the ports down 1,5mm solves that "problem"

 

[trueOverrev]

it's the stroke that's longer, not the conrod
so you can't fix that by placing a spacer under the cilinder.

If thats the only concern, that is an easy fix, that is why the BGM55mm EVO Stroker Crankshaft comes with 5mm aluminum spacer. To compensate that added height.


NOw back to the question on hand. Is it advisable to stroke my Engine using the 55mm stroker crank or Just change the cylinder kit to PM Tuning ProStreet II. To add more HP.

According to the specification of the kit, it is designed for the streets and realibility has been addressed upon.

Stroking the engine is using 55mm crankshaft with Stock Cylinder Kit is cheaper way to add torque since it only cost 220-250EURO

However im really taking into consideration the best option for my Engine and my ultimate goal of Realibility for long rides.

 

[Big B NRG]

Maybe the stroker crank is cheaper to buy, but you would have to adjust the cylinder to that stroke + milling the crankcase so that the crank fits, which means more time and therefor (I think) more money.

Stroking a engine without adjusting the cylinder to that stroke is no use and I doubt if the stock cylinder would benefit from a larger stroke since it's a real piece of shit (small ports, less room for improvement).

The PM-tuning kit might be a little more expensive, but I think it's better value for money and more performance for your money. According to their website, it has enough material that it can be tuned if you want to.

I would say, forget the stroker crank (more hassle) and spend a little more money for bolt on performance without the hassle.

 

[trueOverrev]

You made good point BIG B. Definitely something to consider on my plans.

Thank You for your inputs