unisonracing
Well-Known Member
COD.:CK.68.743.G1 70cc 12mm for a motor minarelli or Italjet-Aprilla
fa2st cyclinder for mini quad
- Thread starter unisonracing
- Start date
unisonracing
Well-Known Member
Does this help in knowing what we have over here for cylinders?
unisonracing
Well-Known Member
unisonracing
Well-Known Member
thats might not be the 43mm crank cylinder
teh 43 cylinder is 68.744 (which matches up with the scooter center part i had in the link). you have the 68.743.
check out the 2nd page on that italiakit link. the 744 model says 43 crank while the 743 does not.
the .744 cylinder is also quite a bit more money
teh 43 cylinder is 68.744 (which matches up with the scooter center part i had in the link). you have the 68.743.
check out the 2nd page on that italiakit link. the 744 model says 43 crank while the 743 does not.
the .744 cylinder is also quite a bit more money
brah that cycle imports link i gave is where i got my kundo crank from? i think you should have spent the money for the right parts the first time, FHT with FHT 46mm crank or the 2fast4race. even a polini evo, mhr team, or metrakit pro race complete set up would be faster then what you are trying to build now with that ital kit even if its a stroker.
unisonracing
Well-Known Member
Understand! We we told the wrong info by the wholesaler. We were getting the polni 12mm kit for like 300.00usd and we were told this kit is just as good... We have learned a lesson. We will be ordering from a new source......... We are now looking for a FHT kit. On the metrakit stuff we tried a 814q0021 pro race lc kit and it was crap. After just one race it started to run strange and heat was way up. The cylinder cam uncoated and we sent it back. They were going to send us a new one but we told them to wait we were doing this........
unisonracing
Well-Known Member
Mind made up. Sending other kits back and cranks. what was the part #'s for what you suggest Rydah Best bag for the $ and price will be a issue on all the builds.
We can port and clean up if it will save a little on a lower model that after porting is as good.
Is there a crank and cylinder combo?
We can port and clean up if it will save a little on a lower model that after porting is as good.
Is there a crank and cylinder combo?
Big B NRG
Well, this is awkward
The Cylinder you got is a Italkit/Gilardoni cylinder.
On mina engines quite fast, but onsuited to use with bigger stroke.
Evo2 is nice, but will not be so fast out of the box.
If you are going to swap cylinder etc, buy a MHR speed 7T.
7 Transfers, etc. If you have a low timed model you can use it with 44 mm stroke crank.
Some people over here drive with 44 mm stroke and Speed 7t.
On mina engines quite fast, but onsuited to use with bigger stroke.
Evo2 is nice, but will not be so fast out of the box.
If you are going to swap cylinder etc, buy a MHR speed 7T.
7 Transfers, etc. If you have a low timed model you can use it with 44 mm stroke crank.
Some people over here drive with 44 mm stroke and Speed 7t.
unisonracing
Well-Known Member
We are talking to our supplyer about the issue with the 43mm or is it a 42mm and do they offer a 43mm crank?
We are also looking at prices on the FHT stuff
Also we will try and see if they carry the mhr stuff.
I will let every one tonight!
We are also looking at prices on the FHT stuff
Also we will try and see if they carry the mhr stuff.
I will let every one tonight!
unisonracing
Well-Known Member
So I hit up the wholesaler about the 43mm and the 42mm cylinder and I was shipped some other guys stuff and he was shipped mine. He had my invoice and I had no invoice. LOL The new stuff will be here Thursday and is good for 45mm cranks. I talked to the italkit tuner and he said that this will and should beat a fhr type cylinder out of the box and with a little tunning 20hp should be easy.
Here is what he said to do.
1. build the bottonm halfs and make sure the oil holes are bigger?
2. fill the case a little and make all surfaces in side the lowers smooth.
3. He said I will need to trim the lower of the cylinder to clear the 45mm crank journals and again smooth out and trim piston skirt to match
4. Open all ports in cylinder 2mm up toward the top of the head
5. I will need to open up the intake and exhaust port 3.7mm to the top and hone when done
6. take 3mm out of the head to get compression down and make a 2mm washer for the spark plug.
7. use as thin of a gasket as I can for the base of the cylinder less than .40mm and use a copper gasket spray?
8. take 1mm off top of piston can take off up to 2mm but that is max and more and ring will heat and fail.
This set up is good for 45mm - 45.5 cranks and is what they have tested. I was told with no hesation it will walk away form most 46mm strokers but will not make the whole season of 32 races. We will need to rering about 15 races into the year. He also said that vforce reeds are great and that I will need to use a spacer with them to get them to work right.
I asked this guy a lot of questions through my wife. She speaks Spanish like english. lol
So is he just trying to sell me kits or does there tunner know what he is talking about?
Here is what he said to do.
1. build the bottonm halfs and make sure the oil holes are bigger?
2. fill the case a little and make all surfaces in side the lowers smooth.
3. He said I will need to trim the lower of the cylinder to clear the 45mm crank journals and again smooth out and trim piston skirt to match
4. Open all ports in cylinder 2mm up toward the top of the head
5. I will need to open up the intake and exhaust port 3.7mm to the top and hone when done
6. take 3mm out of the head to get compression down and make a 2mm washer for the spark plug.
7. use as thin of a gasket as I can for the base of the cylinder less than .40mm and use a copper gasket spray?
8. take 1mm off top of piston can take off up to 2mm but that is max and more and ring will heat and fail.
This set up is good for 45mm - 45.5 cranks and is what they have tested. I was told with no hesation it will walk away form most 46mm strokers but will not make the whole season of 32 races. We will need to rering about 15 races into the year. He also said that vforce reeds are great and that I will need to use a spacer with them to get them to work right.
I asked this guy a lot of questions through my wife. She speaks Spanish like english. lol
So is he just trying to sell me kits or does there tunner know what he is talking about?
Big B NRG
Well, this is awkward
Could be is he right. But remember that not every setup is the same, even when identical.
And 2 mm up is alot. Tell us when you get the stuff in and again give some measurements.
It could a well be true, but check first and do later.
50cczip racer
Well-Known Member
Hello Unison
been following the thread for a while and think the direction your going is quite hard work and may end up being overtuned for its intended use
done quite a lot of stroker builds on minarelli and piaggio motors and i do cobra uk,s tuning and development work on there king 50 and just got the new 65 / 70/ 90 quad in to do.
if you aim to compete with a cobra then handling and machine weight are all important off road probably more so then power ,the power may get you 2 or 3 seconds back but not 1/2 or a full lap that you say your behind so put yourself on a par with handling and machine weight and youll be well on your way
for the engine you got 2 options for best results a dedicated stroker kit like 2 fast or simmonini or a stroker and mid race cylinder
the reason being that you dont want to exceed 190 degrees exhaust duration absolute max,this is more than enough to achieve the power you need to compete with the cobra.
if you use any of the high end cylinders with a standard crank your gonna be up at 195+ and with the stroker youll be through the roof at 205 degrees+ and find yourself taking on loads of work decking and playing with heads to get things civilised again,i know you had bad results with the mk but there normally good cylinders and the sp70 kit makes a great choice with a stroker crank the port layout is almost identical to the pro but timing is way low at approx 176 114 so when you put a stroker crank in you get great port timings and you have a recessed head that you can skim/play around with to obtain the best set up, from a long term point of view keep asking if its feasible to pay loads for a cylinder then put loads more work in to produce the end product for mass production, it seens ok first time round but when youve done 20 of them youll start asking yourself if there wasnt a better way.
the simmonini although ive not seen one /only on photo,s seems to have a great deal going for it.the price is incredible and has the sub boost ports that i prefer ,if it needs a little cleaning up then thats no big deal if it needs a replate then that wont blow the budget either,there cheap enough to afford this and if your planning a quantity of these then youll get a good price on purchase and plating.
before you start out with the italkit conversion you,ve been advised produce a port specification of how it comes (kartweb.com) do a great little program which will produce figures in seconds ive got tsr but often use the kartweb program instead then check on those calcs provided to see what they raise the spec to.The italkit lacks ex port area and its labour intensive adding subs and obtaining a good sized choke diameter without getting close or breaking through into the stud holes,do italkit not do a bridged port/sub version its a shame if not cos its a great cylinder with what i rate as 1 of the best plating jobs in the business.pwk 28 will be fine or tm 24 even. for pipe the r1200 would be a good starting point pvl digital or leonelli digital ignition/malossi or polini overrange the 2 g clutch will fail very quickly so strength is a key here seen quite a few break on quads the st6 looks good but not tried yet
for reeds stick with malossi block it s the only one that will give you good reed life and done back to back vf3 dyno tests that showed very little gain on the malossi over the operating rpm range that the variator holds
been following the thread for a while and think the direction your going is quite hard work and may end up being overtuned for its intended use
done quite a lot of stroker builds on minarelli and piaggio motors and i do cobra uk,s tuning and development work on there king 50 and just got the new 65 / 70/ 90 quad in to do.
if you aim to compete with a cobra then handling and machine weight are all important off road probably more so then power ,the power may get you 2 or 3 seconds back but not 1/2 or a full lap that you say your behind so put yourself on a par with handling and machine weight and youll be well on your way
for the engine you got 2 options for best results a dedicated stroker kit like 2 fast or simmonini or a stroker and mid race cylinder
the reason being that you dont want to exceed 190 degrees exhaust duration absolute max,this is more than enough to achieve the power you need to compete with the cobra.
if you use any of the high end cylinders with a standard crank your gonna be up at 195+ and with the stroker youll be through the roof at 205 degrees+ and find yourself taking on loads of work decking and playing with heads to get things civilised again,i know you had bad results with the mk but there normally good cylinders and the sp70 kit makes a great choice with a stroker crank the port layout is almost identical to the pro but timing is way low at approx 176 114 so when you put a stroker crank in you get great port timings and you have a recessed head that you can skim/play around with to obtain the best set up, from a long term point of view keep asking if its feasible to pay loads for a cylinder then put loads more work in to produce the end product for mass production, it seens ok first time round but when youve done 20 of them youll start asking yourself if there wasnt a better way.
the simmonini although ive not seen one /only on photo,s seems to have a great deal going for it.the price is incredible and has the sub boost ports that i prefer ,if it needs a little cleaning up then thats no big deal if it needs a replate then that wont blow the budget either,there cheap enough to afford this and if your planning a quantity of these then youll get a good price on purchase and plating.
before you start out with the italkit conversion you,ve been advised produce a port specification of how it comes (kartweb.com) do a great little program which will produce figures in seconds ive got tsr but often use the kartweb program instead then check on those calcs provided to see what they raise the spec to.The italkit lacks ex port area and its labour intensive adding subs and obtaining a good sized choke diameter without getting close or breaking through into the stud holes,do italkit not do a bridged port/sub version its a shame if not cos its a great cylinder with what i rate as 1 of the best plating jobs in the business.pwk 28 will be fine or tm 24 even. for pipe the r1200 would be a good starting point pvl digital or leonelli digital ignition/malossi or polini overrange the 2 g clutch will fail very quickly so strength is a key here seen quite a few break on quads the st6 looks good but not tried yet
for reeds stick with malossi block it s the only one that will give you good reed life and done back to back vf3 dyno tests that showed very little gain on the malossi over the operating rpm range that the variator holds
Big B NRG
Well, this is awkward
I agree with 50cc zip racer. SP timings are perfect for stroking.
The speed 7T is std around 193/194 exhaust. Really workable. Those ar ATM just the fastest cylinders avalible for std stroke. Easily doing 22+ hp and still be realible.
IF you want to stroke, go for the MK SP, like said above.
The speed 7T is std around 193/194 exhaust. Really workable. Those ar ATM just the fastest cylinders avalible for std stroke. Easily doing 22+ hp and still be realible.
IF you want to stroke, go for the MK SP, like said above.
unisonracing
Well-Known Member
OK, we have been looking at some of the cylinders here and ordered one of each to see what they looked like at random vendors. Here is what we saw
Fabrizi - bad plating, lots of splatter and mold left overs.
MK sp - One of the worst plating jobs we have ever seen. It peeled 1" strips and I saw 3 others on there test bench doing the same bubble and peel thing.The metra kit stuff is very costly in the usa 1 dealer and he is very high even at dealer cost.
I have the 34mm strokers in ups and will be in today. The port timings are much better. The timmings are very close to 2f4r 70 stuff. If we can work with Italkit I would like to do so as they are very nice over there. They are even open to making us a cylinder that we like for the ATV mini's. They just need to know what we like. They seemed very interested in helping us get to our goal. They even gave us a call back to say sorry about the mix up. They really did think that when I said we were stroking the 70cc they thought 43mm was what we were talking about. This is what most of them are doing over there I guess. They now know it is a 45mm we are using and port timming are said to be ok for this 43mm 70 kit we will be getting. We will be putting everything on the scales on Saturday to see where we are at. We have shed 23 lbs with custom parts. Our fox float shocks are under 1lb each 8lbs stock or elka or pep or most coil springs
We have gone to a OKO 28mm carb also. For price and parts it can not be beat. I will be taking pictures of everything this week and will post them here. I will post a little smaller though.
Every one is great with there input and this project would not be where it is now with out all of your help.
We will be posting every few days for the next few weeks, till project is done. With lost of pictures and every build detail, no trick or size hidden What we used and what it will or should cost every one.
Simonini - not ordered yet.
Polini - Good but over priced and only 10mm pin size.
Italkit - Great support (better than the rest as most never e-mailed or call us) but most of all is the craftsmanship of the part. For the price by far the best. There is a lot of room for porting and every thing fits good. Port timming is a issue though but coating inside is the best we have seen thus far.
Fabrizi - bad plating, lots of splatter and mold left overs.
MK sp - One of the worst plating jobs we have ever seen. It peeled 1" strips and I saw 3 others on there test bench doing the same bubble and peel thing.The metra kit stuff is very costly in the usa 1 dealer and he is very high even at dealer cost.
I have the 34mm strokers in ups and will be in today. The port timings are much better. The timmings are very close to 2f4r 70 stuff. If we can work with Italkit I would like to do so as they are very nice over there. They are even open to making us a cylinder that we like for the ATV mini's. They just need to know what we like. They seemed very interested in helping us get to our goal. They even gave us a call back to say sorry about the mix up. They really did think that when I said we were stroking the 70cc they thought 43mm was what we were talking about. This is what most of them are doing over there I guess. They now know it is a 45mm we are using and port timming are said to be ok for this 43mm 70 kit we will be getting. We will be putting everything on the scales on Saturday to see where we are at. We have shed 23 lbs with custom parts. Our fox float shocks are under 1lb each 8lbs stock or elka or pep or most coil springs
We have gone to a OKO 28mm carb also. For price and parts it can not be beat. I will be taking pictures of everything this week and will post them here. I will post a little smaller though.
Every one is great with there input and this project would not be where it is now with out all of your help.
We will be posting every few days for the next few weeks, till project is done. With lost of pictures and every build detail, no trick or size hidden What we used and what it will or should cost every one.
Simonini - not ordered yet.
Polini - Good but over priced and only 10mm pin size.
Italkit - Great support (better than the rest as most never e-mailed or call us) but most of all is the craftsmanship of the part. For the price by far the best. There is a lot of room for porting and every thing fits good. Port timming is a issue though but coating inside is the best we have seen thus far.
