Dragscooter test runs
- Thread starter tiba_karotsu
- Start date
dieselmaniac
Zupermen
Browni said:
you can see his setup, so yes it is impossible
tiba_karotsu
OVERREV TUNING
my scooter weighs just under 43kgs with a full load of fuel (1L) & coolant, assuming that i was making 20hp with my set-up we divide that with 43kgs then we get a 0,465hp/1kg power to weight ratio, now we compare this with a scooter having 24hp & weighs around 75kgs which i think is the lightest you can do on a Zip or Aerox scoot with stock frame we get 0,32hp/1kg power to weight ratio, a big difference you see?
now assuming you have NOS on your Zip & say it makes 30hp & it weighs 80kgs then you only have 0,375hp/1kg power to weight ratio, now assuming that i got lucky on my tuning & hit a 22hp output on my dragscooter which is very possible right now even with 28mm carb my power to weight will shoot up to 0,511hp which is near the CBR600RR with a 0,548hp/1kg power to weight ratio.
i have said this long ago "light makes might", while you guys concentrated on getting the most hp out of a small motor we have been doing the opposite by figuring out how to reduce weight of the whole scooter & when we have done it we then concentrated on getting the hp up on a decent level in order to be competitive against 95cc dragscooters, i have learned a lot from you guys when it comes to parts selection especially the pipe,you have absolutely helped me reduce my engine development time considerably & that i am very grateful, as for the frame we have learned a lot from the japanese where all out acceleration in 50m is the utmost importance.
we copied from their designs & changed some things b'coz we race 400m but we do know the importance of lightning quick acceleration as we have devoted most of time trying to get to the same times as those of the japanese dragscooters only without wheelie bars. now we can practically takeoff on our scooter under 100% throttle opening without fear of lifting the front wheel, the quicker you give the engine full throttle the lower the times you'll going to get, the more time you spend on feathering the throttle to prevent lifting the front wheel the more time it takes you to finish the same distance.
the scooter is so well set up that it spins the rear tire (TT91GP) with impunity, asphalt or concrete, it needs a good burnout just get more traction but we only do that when it's necessary, my rider has excellent throttle control that he can control tirespin by varying the rpm during takeoff, since we have been only testing the carb & rollers in the movie there never was a need to burnout the tires but if watch it again you can see a slight delay before the scooter shoots off & that's b'coz of tirespin, acceleration would have been quicker if the tire was hot & sticky.
i have been searching for a softer compound tire to replace the Dunlops that i use & sadly only Sava has those but i can get them when i really need them.
you can say that this scooter represents what it can do when you combine Dutch, Japanese & Filipino scootertuning techniques, sometimes you need to think outside the box to come up with something that works.
btw coming soon will be a 2F4R/C30 version of this scooter, it will be built on a similar platform to my dragscooter to take on the 95cc/125cc dragscooters, & yes i will post movies of it as well.
i remember what you guys said years ago if we had the same parts you have, well this is one of them.
now assuming you have NOS on your Zip & say it makes 30hp & it weighs 80kgs then you only have 0,375hp/1kg power to weight ratio, now assuming that i got lucky on my tuning & hit a 22hp output on my dragscooter which is very possible right now even with 28mm carb my power to weight will shoot up to 0,511hp which is near the CBR600RR with a 0,548hp/1kg power to weight ratio.
i have said this long ago "light makes might", while you guys concentrated on getting the most hp out of a small motor we have been doing the opposite by figuring out how to reduce weight of the whole scooter & when we have done it we then concentrated on getting the hp up on a decent level in order to be competitive against 95cc dragscooters, i have learned a lot from you guys when it comes to parts selection especially the pipe,you have absolutely helped me reduce my engine development time considerably & that i am very grateful, as for the frame we have learned a lot from the japanese where all out acceleration in 50m is the utmost importance.
we copied from their designs & changed some things b'coz we race 400m but we do know the importance of lightning quick acceleration as we have devoted most of time trying to get to the same times as those of the japanese dragscooters only without wheelie bars. now we can practically takeoff on our scooter under 100% throttle opening without fear of lifting the front wheel, the quicker you give the engine full throttle the lower the times you'll going to get, the more time you spend on feathering the throttle to prevent lifting the front wheel the more time it takes you to finish the same distance.
the scooter is so well set up that it spins the rear tire (TT91GP) with impunity, asphalt or concrete, it needs a good burnout just get more traction but we only do that when it's necessary, my rider has excellent throttle control that he can control tirespin by varying the rpm during takeoff, since we have been only testing the carb & rollers in the movie there never was a need to burnout the tires but if watch it again you can see a slight delay before the scooter shoots off & that's b'coz of tirespin, acceleration would have been quicker if the tire was hot & sticky.
i have been searching for a softer compound tire to replace the Dunlops that i use & sadly only Sava has those but i can get them when i really need them.
you can say that this scooter represents what it can do when you combine Dutch, Japanese & Filipino scootertuning techniques, sometimes you need to think outside the box to come up with something that works.
btw coming soon will be a 2F4R/C30 version of this scooter, it will be built on a similar platform to my dragscooter to take on the 95cc/125cc dragscooters, & yes i will post movies of it as well.
i remember what you guys said years ago if we had the same parts you have, well this is one of them.
well your calculations are a bit strange
when you add the weight of the riders, it changes the relationships of the two ratios
with a rider of 60kg total 103 kg(22hp).Tiba has a ratio of 0,21 hp/kg
but with an aerox of 70kg+ 60kg rider with also 22hp then there is a ratio of 0,17hp/kg
so here you see its not such a big difference after all
when you add the weight of the riders, it changes the relationships of the two ratios
with a rider of 60kg total 103 kg(22hp).Tiba has a ratio of 0,21 hp/kg
but with an aerox of 70kg+ 60kg rider with also 22hp then there is a ratio of 0,17hp/kg
so here you see its not such a big difference after all
tiba_karotsu
OVERREV TUNING
Eoin,
my rider weighs 45kgs.
25kgs is a huge difference, on paper a difference of 0,04hp/kg may seem small or insignificant you need to remove a lot of weight or add more hp to reach the same power to weight ratio. which would run quicker a scooter with 20hp & 43kgs or a scooter with 24hp & 70kgs?
adding more hp is very difficult & equally expensive but also using exotic materials to lighten the scooter could also cost the same as modding the engine for more power.
a heavier scooter also puts more strain on the clutch & transmission, the belt & clutch would slip more under load on a heavy scooter more than a light scooter, it is why my scooter spins the tires very easy it can transfer nearly 100% of it's power to the rear wheel without suffering clutch & belt slip.
we are very lucky that we started on an already light platform for our dragscooter (yamaha Jog) you can clearly see how much we chopped off the frame to lighten it, you can only do so much chopping & lightening on a Zip or Aerox frame without sacrificing rigidity that's why you guys have to bite the bullet & fabricate an expensive alloy sprint frame for the Piaggio b'coz you can't lighten the stock Zip frame to the max like we do on the Jog.
my rider weighs 45kgs.
25kgs is a huge difference, on paper a difference of 0,04hp/kg may seem small or insignificant you need to remove a lot of weight or add more hp to reach the same power to weight ratio. which would run quicker a scooter with 20hp & 43kgs or a scooter with 24hp & 70kgs?
adding more hp is very difficult & equally expensive but also using exotic materials to lighten the scooter could also cost the same as modding the engine for more power.
a heavier scooter also puts more strain on the clutch & transmission, the belt & clutch would slip more under load on a heavy scooter more than a light scooter, it is why my scooter spins the tires very easy it can transfer nearly 100% of it's power to the rear wheel without suffering clutch & belt slip.
we are very lucky that we started on an already light platform for our dragscooter (yamaha Jog) you can clearly see how much we chopped off the frame to lighten it, you can only do so much chopping & lightening on a Zip or Aerox frame without sacrificing rigidity that's why you guys have to bite the bullet & fabricate an expensive alloy sprint frame for the Piaggio b'coz you can't lighten the stock Zip frame to the max like we do on the Jog.
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tiba_karotsu
OVERREV TUNING
Big B NRG said:
That would be without reaction time, my rider has an average reaction time of 0,450seconds on a Pro Tree, on a Sportsman Tree he sometimes get a redlight b'coz the lights come down slower (0,500seconds) so he has to stage shallow in order for him to not get a redlight.
btw ET & reaction times don't add up to the total ET that's not the way you read a timeslip, example in bracket racing you dialed in a 12.47 seconds & your opponent also dialed in 12.47 seconds & they both race down the track & both hit 12.47's but the one with a quicker reaction time wins the race, if the other guy get a 0,650 reaction time vs a 1,105 reaction time then the one with a quicker reaction time wins the race.
the ET only starts when one (or both) stage lights on the Tree goes out & only at that time the timer stops on the reaction timer.
i have been racing import cars in legal drag events long ago before i moved on to scooters so i have some faily good experience with how these timers work.
i will take more movies when we get out & test in the 400m runs, the videos have been taken with Sony 7.2 megapixel cybershot camera & i have uploaded it to my PC immediately after the test, also i haven't speeded up the image i don't know or will i ever try to commit fraud.
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Big B NRG
Well, this is awkward
tiba_karotsu said:
No I believe you, given the construction of the frame, and the setup, I think it's possible (well, obvisiouly it is). But you have to agree with me, when you add reaction time on a sprint, you will have a higher ET.
So if your driver has an 0.450 sec. reaction time and you add the bruto time of 6.02 that makes 6.450 secs in total.
That is still fast, but we do with a stock ZipSP (bodywork etc attaced/Twins) 7.2xx seconds on 150 meter..
i think youve convinced me more about these times... in holland they care alot about the optical styling of the scooters, and that works out negative on our times. only a few build their own frames, that weigh about 35 kg, but we dutch are tall as hell... so that adds alot to our total weight ratio, cant we borow a small filipino for one season?
tiba_karotsu
OVERREV TUNING
my rider would love that, to race in another country especially in holland would be a dream come true, not only we can watch MOTOGP in assen but he gets to go to amsterdam & watch them hot chicks on the windows .
if you can shoulder all the expenses like plane tickets, board & lodging i would be happy to go along with him.
if you can shoulder all the expenses like plane tickets, board & lodging i would be happy to go along with him.
Big B NRG
Well, this is awkward
tiba_karotsu said:my rider would love that, to race in another country especially in holland would be a dream come true, not only we can watch MOTOGP in assen but he gets to go to amsterdam & watch them hot chicks on the windows .
if you can shoulder all the expenses like plane tickets, board & lodging i would be happy to go along with him.
Should we raise a funds
Swobber
Danish Tuner
Tiba: If you cant get hold of an ultra soft tire, why dont you just buy a kit of Tyre softener?
http://www.griptyresoftener.com/index.asp
Btw: What would prices be around? A few thousand euro's for getting you driver and you to Europe?
/Swobber
http://www.griptyresoftener.com/index.asp
Btw: What would prices be around? A few thousand euro's for getting you driver and you to Europe?
/Swobber
