piaggio zip carter tune

waxhead said:
What is the drawback with chemical metal
I have never had a negative issue with it at all
as long as you are careful in preparing the alloy correctly
Click to expand...

Plastic padding makes a really good Chemical product, that works fine with fuel. The question is though, the 1-3 mm. you get from cutting a hole into the carter, is that worth it? i mean, you can very easily tune the carter without taking the last 2 mm of, that makes the hole. That's after all what i did.
 
.

I mean thats why the design of the exhaust is that important...
Especially the Expansion chamber has the major influence and supports/changes the WAVES in certain ways what gives the 2t finally its power.
Therefore we could explain the big diffrence of each exhausts performance (lenght,volume,curve etc)
 
I understand how an expansion chamber works, more so then maybe you realise

when the pipe sucks the mixture , it comes from the cylinder thats feed by the transfers in turn the cases
if you have a well designed pipe it will scavenge the cases that well that it runs out of avaliable air and will pull the reeds open , this is called the 2nd reed opening ( one of the reasons that v-force are so good) and yes it goes up the pipe and then its pushed back in by the positive pressure

This was one of the reasons for going to fatty expansion chambers, they scavenge better than slimmer body chambers and can pull more up the transfers
 
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There is a product call jb-weld its basically the industry std in western tuning scenes
if you prepare the job correctly it will never let go

I sand blast the area to be jbwelded then use acetone to clean it
So far i have never had a failure of the bonding
 
waxhead said:
I understand how an expansion chamber works, more so then maybe you realise

when the pipe sucks the mixture , it comes from the cylinder thats feed by the transfers in turn the cases
if you have a well designed pipe it will scavenge the cases that well that it runs out of avaliable air and will pull the reeds open , this is called the 2nd reed opening ( one of the reasons that v-force are so good) and yes it goes up the pipe and then its pushed back in by the positive pressure
Click to expand...

the vforce is not performing better,at least not always,i mean i ve seen dyno runs of mina engines and the vl14 ported performed better,but thats just a thing beside.
Vforce reacts quicker also because of its height(further away from the crank) ,its shorter and does not create the same turbolences (vl14 vs vforce)had both before too)...

the waves travel at a very high speed,something at 1300 to 1700 feet per second?its like the reeds would be open constantly(i know they dont) but maybe explain the 2nd opening of the reeds.

ur quote....
if you have a well designed pipe it will scavenge the cases that well that it runs out of avaliable air and will pull the reeds open ...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
did i say something diffrent before?:S


EDIT
I think i know why we dont agree....cuz I SAY the exhaust does not suck the mixture right out,,...the important detail we both forgot to mention is that only a part of the NEW MIXTURE(which got sucked in) goes into the exhaust...It kind of sounded that the whole mixture would go straight to the exhaust (we both know its impossible ^^) also because the exhaust would burn the mixture if it d go in there XD ...so the diffrence is/was that we didnt mention the NEW and OLD(burned ) mixture....however,i hope its clear now
 
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Remember some old wise words saying:

"Theory is when you know everything, but nothing seems to work out"

"Practical is when everything works out, but no one seems to know why"

So remember that you cant always judge only by the current theories. Tuning is like an evolution, something works out, and certainly something does not, then the nature just go back to basics. And on and on ...
 
Sonic-speed said:
Remember some old wise words saying:

"Theory is when you know everything, but nothing seems to work out"

"Practical is when everything works out, but no one seems to know why"

So remember that you cant always judge only by the current theories. Tuning is like an evolution, something works out, and certainly something does not, then the nature just go back to basics. And on and on ...
Click to expand...


But without theories many things wouldnt exist...

remember also....

"Imagination is knowledge" (guess who said that xD)

also a big help,i personally like to calculate things as wellXD
 
I have used both JB Weld and Devcon inside of crankcases, and neither one has ever failed me. Lots of people mix these chemicals with aluminum chips, and I haven't even done that and still haven't had a problem. Aluminum powder or chips would make it thicker though, and easier to apply. If some epoxy in the right places can improve flow, then why not use it? Like waxhead, I also media blast my carters to provide better texture, thus better flow.

Over the years in 2 stroke evolution, many different practices and theories have been put into place. That's one thing that makes a tuner unique. Everyone has an individual style, skill, theory and reputation. It seems like no matter what, you're going to find someone that disagrees with you. Rick at Macdizzy has built a BUNCH of high-end race winning engines in quads. People spent so much time arguing that he wasn't doing things the right way that it got old for him to keep defending his own actions to people visiting his own website. His engines are still winning races, which is more than a lot of the other guys can say. Some of his writings are different from the 2 stroke "Tomes" (Bell, Jennings, Blair, etc) but his methods work, and his engines kick ass.

I realize that the largest gain in engine tuning is with the transfer and exhaust ports. If I take all the time to tune my carters and transfer tunnels to flow the way I feel they should, and my engine doesn't perform much differently than it would have without, not all is lost. It's part of being an enthusiast and a tuner to try different things and have different views.

I also believe that a well tuned engine with a proper exhaust can cause the reeds to open before the transfers are closed. I think this would be more on engines with very high primary compression. Perhaps the second reed opening is rare (How would I know?) but I don't think it's impossible. Wouldn't it be nice if we could have a way to see everything that happened in the engine when it was running?

WDJ, with all the above put aside, if I were buliding a MHR Team 2 engine, I would probably opt for some more aggressive carter tuning like is shown in the picture I posted. Over time, with enough opinions, you will hear many contradicting opinions and views. Some people think cartertuning is a waste, some don't. I guess it comes down to what makes the best sense to you, and what you feel will be a job well done!

Whatever way you choose to proceed, I sincerely wish you the best of luck in your engine build. You've chosen a fine cylinder!

All the best,

~Josh
 
This is what Bimotion talk about Im guessing every one knows who there are??

With strong pulses engaged we don't need too large/high transfer ports. The pipe will then help and pull out the gas from the crankcase, even manage to open the reed valve and pull more air through the engine. When the transfer ports are closed, a second returning wave in the pipe pushes back the fresh gas that was spilled out into the header, in the remaining blowdown window that is. The charging pressure is often in the region of two atmospheres (bar) and far over that.

here is the link here
http://www.datafan.com/bimotion/2stroketheory.html

I find its a good thing to read and learn , with an open mind its amazing what you can actually learn
 
WDJ said:
Areomyst,sorry,i dont konw the 'buliding' ,What does this mean?
Click to expand...

No problem sir,

Putting together or making an engine is what I refer to. Performance parts install & tuning is what I mean by "building" an engine. :)

Hope this helps,

~Josh
 
waxhead said:
This is what Bimotion talk about Im guessing every one knows who there are??

With strong pulses engaged we don't need too large/high transfer ports. The pipe will then help and pull out the gas from the crankcase, even manage to open the reed valve and pull more air through the engine. When the transfer ports are closed, a second returning wave in the pipe pushes back the fresh gas that was spilled out into the header, in the remaining blowdown window that is. The charging pressure is often in the region of two atmospheres (bar) and far over that.

here is the link here
http://www.datafan.com/bimotion/2stroketheory.html

I find its a good thing to read and learn , with an open mind its amazing what you can actually learn
Click to expand...

Good link there. They have a very nice suite of software!

~Josh
 
Yeah its interesting software
I have designed a few pipes from it on kart engines when i was racing them
They worked well
Not sure how much more power i got but i could design the pipe to help the engine run in the rpm i wanted
 
apriliafan,look you pic,i have a new idea.
pistons compressed mixture into the cylinder,this time intake valve is closed and the mixture in the Crankcase already.
i posted the first pic more suitable for this theory.
second pic has a big slope,it suitable mixture into the crankcase but it is not suitable mixture into the cylinder from the crankcase.
 
WDJ said:
apriliafan,look you pic,i have a new idea.
pistons compressed mixture into the cylinder,this time intake valve is closed and the mixture in the Crankcase already.
i posted the first pic more suitable for this theory.
second pic has a big slope,it suitable mixture into the crankcase but it is not suitable mixture into the cylinder from the crankcase.
Click to expand...

this doesnt need to be an idea,its a fact,and if u take a good look at my last vid or posts u should maybe understand what i mean:)

however,still convinced that the exhaust does not suck the mixture straight into it,cuz new charge of mixture goes to the crankshaft b4 its even getting sucked by the compressure(piston goes down)into the exhaust area,....



as i said b4
--------------------------------------------------------------------

This sucks !!!a part of !!!the !!!new!!! intake charge into the exhaust pipe. Then, just before the piston closes the exhaust port again, this negative wave changes to a positive wave and pushes the fresh intake fuel charge BACK into the cylinder.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


EDIT:
I mean good carter tuning u can see straight away from Waxheads project :)

http://www.scootershack.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=10136&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

like this it has to be done ^^
 
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