New Stage6 cylinders

hi mate

the new stage 6 cylinder will be made by TCR so i think the reliability will not be a problem

They aren't made by TCR. TCR helped developed these cylinders. These cylinders will have a different coating from the Racing/sport cylinders.

But they didn't mentioned where they will be coated.
 
/off topic

Happy birthday Big B !
bike.jpg
 
Hey!

The heading of the thread was New Stage6 cylinders - so the post is in the right place.

Stage6 launched a 70cc cast-iron cylinder. They say that it should make only .5 HP less than the alu Sport Pro and revv up to 10'000RPM. The ports are practically 1:1 with the Sport pro, the piston is made by Vertex and it has 49ccm pressed in to the casing of the cylinder to fool cops..
The price is about 120EUR.

Stage6 STREETRACE 70cc
http://www.scooter-attack.com/news/?s=#artikelinfo_2551

et-s67216651.jpg

et-s67216651_05.jpg

et-s67216651_01.jpg
 
Well Stage6 lives up to its name:
"Unfortunately the manufacturer cannot supply us and cannot tell us when these kits will be available".

Nice product release! For the S6 Pro Replica it still took them months before it was in stock.
 
They did tell me when the actual metal cylinders will arrive that they will test but I can't remember now..:mad: . I'll find out, as for production cylinders going on sale, I suppose that depends on how well the trials of the working prototypes go.
 
these cyls wont be avaible before summer.
the stage 6 team got them now and they ll test the final version.also the new pulley and variator will be tested.after successful tests u can first expect these things "oficial " on the market

got some details as well.

-as u know,this cyl consists in 3 parts.the spacer part will be avaible for diffrent models which allows u to change JUST the spacer to use it on other engines.

-the cyl bolts wont go straight to the carter.as u can see on that pic it got 5 bolts....advantage of it-->better porting potencial

-the cyl will be for minarelli engines cooled by the adapterplate beside the exhausport(look at pic)

stage6rtminarelli70cc03hb2.jpg

-the exhaustport is gonna have an adapter.other adapter will be avaible which allows u to put also exhaust on from other engines


stage6rtminarelli70cc02dk2.jpg



i also got intresting details for u.an conservation between thilo(manager of Sa) and an tuner


Hi Luca,

thanks for your interest in the R/T cylinder.

1. to center items by using a counter sunk screw is a good idea. in the beginning we planned to do it that way. due there are too many tolerances in the engine carters we changed to the allen screws which fit into the CNC machined baseplate with a clearence of just 0,1mm
2. to center the cylinder on the baseplate we use a special machined stud.More details we will be posted soon
3. please see attached pictures which attests that the use of O-rings on GP engines is also common. We use an O-ring to seal between plate and cylinder. The kit comes with different thickness aluminium gaskets to use between carter and adapter plate.


answer

From the following photos if i don’t see badly i’ve noticed that you have made some test with 45 bore pistons,what result have you had?
Considering that i’m not a fan of this last fashion that is the excessive increase of the piston displacement,it wouldn’t been better for our carters that don’t have volumetry and for our belt drive already in crisis with 70cc high performance kit to use smaller bore as a 47,6x44 or 45x44?
With a piston displacement nearly 94cc the primary compression ratio in carter (i mean: (piston displacement + carters volumetry)/carters volumetry) exceeds 1,55 while 1,43 of a malossi 7port...is soooo much!
Thanks for attention,i appreciate a lot your longing to do,it doing very well to scooter’s world!
Sorry for low technical english,i hope you understand

thilo

Hi Luca,

we just use the O-Ring on the adapter plate, not between plate and carter.
We personally know GP workshops who do it the same way without any problems or disadvantages. To have 2 gaskets on the cylinder makes the squish control more difficult.

I absolutely confirm that a square bore / stroke ratio might be an interesting option. We tried in the beginning of 2006 on something similar (as you can see on the picture). The project stuck a while, since the results wasn`t like what we expected.
And nowadays customers are looking for a bigger displacement which make it neccesary for us to follow this trend.
Also the Japanese scooter scene has long experiences with similar capacitys on small engines (Jog 90cc ist almost the same crankcase like the 50).
The bigger capacity kits are mostly in use for drag races, not cuircuit races.

About the primary compression. you may recognized that we changed from high primary compression crankshafts to a lower volume crank web in the past giving better performance than the high compression crankshafts like Malossi uses. we than tested longer rods and even higher compressions heights on pistons showing that 27mm and 85mm rod works best on 52mm with standard stroke.

the guy again XD
I know that you have to reckon whit sales,but if the customer wants a bigger displacement than 70cc it doesn’t mean the biggest is better.
For example in italy,several trophys regulaments in circuit races and drag races have as limit 80cc displacement, (except malossi and polini that are monomark) stage 6/tcr trophy for example have as limit 85cc, cat. A drag race have as limit 80cc, ecc...
a 47,6x44 with the r/t cylinder fixing would be gold!
Here in italy (i’m sure not only here) al lot of people hope you produce a 47,6x44 kit,more expoitable,in both fields,than 83cc or 94cc kit
And then, whit a 52mm bore the jacket of the cylinder will be very thin and you should boring the carter a lot to place,it doesn’t weaken too much?
You have probably misunderstood (or i have transalte badly) what i mean about the primary compression ratio in carter. I try to explain better:
A good 70cc carter have a total volume when the piston are at bottom dead point about 165cc,the primary compression ratio in carter will be about 1,43:1 ( [70+165]/165 ).
The 83cc kit have same total volume in carter than 70cc but whit more displacement the primary compression ratio increase to 1.5:1 ( [83+165]/165 )
The value still increase whit the 52x44 kit to 1.57:1 ( [94+165]/165 ).
Also whit more volume for a 85mm (for original stroke) or 90mm (for 44 stroke) rod the ratio changes only 0.02:1 it would remain very high, you don’t agree?

thilo

@luca:

thank you very much for your critical input. you certainly have a point with the primary compression ratio. from our research results i have to admit that a high primary compression ratio is not unlikely to have a negative effect on the engine's performance (although the effect apparently depends on things such as transfer port timing, flow pattern and exhaust). in particular with aggressive exhaust pipe designs which are an absolute necessity for high bmep one is likely to encounter problems there. if the fresh charge shoots up the transfers, pushed by high primary compression, and is then further accelerated an exhaust with effective diffusors one is likely to loose quite a high percentage of the fresh charge needed in the engine to make good power. i perfectly agree with your point that a lower primary compression ratio would be desirable for a more stable flow through the transfers, and for less loss of fresh charge. i believe we have found (and already tested) a solution which not only brings crankcase compression down but also has the added benefit of doing away with what we consider the next restriction of the engine. we believe the flow area of the reed valves is quite small for the sort of power our engines are making right now. hence a larger reed valve wouldn't be a bad idea. we have played around with bigger sized reeds which require a manifold to house them. this manifold is bolted to the crankcase without any need for welding (the area of the inlet is actually large enough to flow quite a decent volume in the time given, that is if is not restricted by the reed valve) and which then takes a larger reed valve. we have done some testing with different volumes of manifolds and with different reedvalves, and we are absolutely certain that this not only is a solution for the primary compression, but also for the limiting reed size.

your remark concerning the engine capacity is well justified also. please remember though that, although we are interested in racing and regulations, we want to take the whole thing to what we consider the limit. it's a bit like massimo tedeschi and his 2fast (for race) kits maybe.


i hope u could read about intrestig details....

i believe this cyl is gonna beat mhr,but we can just wait for results
 
Yes nice discussion on S-A forum, good to see Thilo knows what he's talking about and they really put a lot of work into the new kit.
And the other forum visitors there really don't have a clue compared to the Luca guy :)
 
im a little confues

Yes nice discussion on S-A forum, good to see Thilo knows what he's talking about and they really put a lot of work into the new kit.
And the other forum visitors there really don't have a clue compared to the Luca guy :)


hey guys . im not so good to english but i hope you guys understand me :)

im a little confused .
i have a Yamaha Aerox . with Polini evo 2 .
and what is the boring on the new stage 6 95 cc ?
i read that it is 52 mm is that right .
i hope you understand me :D
 
hey guys . im not so good to english but i hope you guys understand me :)

im a little confused .
i have a Yamaha Aerox . with Polini evo 2 .
and what is the boring on the new stage 6 95 cc ?
i read that it is 52 mm is that right .
i hope you understand me :D

The 95ccm kit is still far away from the release date.
Btw,the 70ccm R/T will come out in April if the 100 first R/T BETA versions succeed(which will come within 2 weeks to the first 100 ppl,i am one of them XD)

According to the last statements,Massimo Tedeschi made it up to 24,8CV,but no dyno run is shown yet and the International Test Day have been successful anyway for the R/Ts.

EDIT:Those cylinders will be produced in Spain :) and not Taiwan ^^
 
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