fa2st cyclinder for mini quad

unisonracing

unisonracing

Well-Known Member
I need some help from the racer pro's out there! We need to be able to put out 20hp or a little more from a jog motor. We tried the metrakit and found every one diff. One would look good one the ports not so good.... So we heard from a guy in the NL that 2fastforrace made a kick butt 44mm -88mm and we need to be able to be able to run at the end of the pack of cobra mini atv's with the polini type 70cc motor. We are at least one lap back no matter what we run and a 9000 dollar atv is just not in my funding. We need to build a very fast jog motor for MX track and 2000 is our limit on motors. we can run up to 110cc in the mod 90 class. Oh, my kid is a girl racer and she loves to show the boys she can be just as fast as they are. She keeps bringing me pic's of cobras and I just do not know what to do! We just can not spend 100 a week on racing and 9000 on a new bike... So, I thought I would ask the best of the best.
BigBoy

Oh, just got some info on a 80cc cobra in our shop. It is stock and puts out 19.7hp at 14000rpm the curve is wide due to the 6 speed trans. The dino said that the top speed is 82mph? The price was over 10500 for the bike and race kit. There has to be a way to make this kind of power and put it to the ground. I hope that the jog type mini atv's are not over. At 10500 we will be out of racing or at least 2 laps back.
 
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well you can get a 2fast cylinder kit for the quad, its 80 cc, it scores around 25 hp + on a piaggio engine, i didnt see ay dyno's of minarelli yet. you can get it at www.trteam.it or scooterattack.com
ive also got a small quad 80 cc with jog engine, im soon going to put my old team 2 in it to see how it runs :p
not just the 2fast kit is what you need, you would also need a good exhaust, carb, vario, ignition, (2fast crank), etc etc and the speed all depends on what gears the bike is using...
 
Massimo Tedeschi told us he got 28hp from his 2Fast Piaggio dragster but that kind of power doesn't come cheap, digital inner rotor ignitions, custom pipes, vforce reeds, special manifold are the least of the parts needed to make even 24hp but to get to that level requires a lot of patience, knowledge & most of all $$$.

btw i'm very familiar with your engine b'coz i have been dragracing Yamaha Jogs since 2000 maybe i could be of some assistance to you, i'm also currently in the process of building the engine that you seek but trust me it's not easy to get hold of the parts you're looking for.

tell me what setup do you run on your quad?
 
Right now we are using
48mm Stuffed/stroked crank
54mm Airsal ported
28mm oko Carb with power jet
delta clutch
dr. pulley rollers
28-30 intake
polini carbon reeds and no stuffer
1 ring piston
14/44 gears
The motor puts out about 16hp on a good day, but the cobra's kill us on the tracks and are out of most racers budget. here is what I am looking at.

1. 2fastforrace 80cc head
2. yes the 2fast krank! bud it wont fit in the standard enige, I will need to
make the engine 76,5-77mm because standard slag(i don't now the english
word) is 39,2mm now its 44mm. also the feet of the cilinder are a little bigger, I will need to spindel the engine also for it !!
3. Malossi Delta Clutch
4. yes PVL or Malossi Eprom
5. Malossi VL14 reed, intake custom spacer with a malossi
ass ! normaly I drive with 28mm keihin PWK D-slide carburators, i tune
the intake to 28mm (+- 1,5 HP xtra)
6. use The malossi overrange kit (including: variator, belt, pouliesystem)
7. Dr. pully rollers
8. We will be swithing to a electric waterpumps !! I need 12V
9. for the carb, don't use higher as 32mm, but I am thinking of flat side carbs?
As, I pick out pcs of this build I will post the names and photos of the step by step for all to read on our site. If you do not want your name posted I will not do so. But, I give credit where credit is due......
 
I will be using XSH-Tuning (Marco) for all my case work, I hear he is the best around. Big $ and I hope worth the price. We have been doing our own, but he seems to feel he has a few tricks to get me a few extra hp and keep it safe from frags.......
 
tiba_karotsu said:
Massimo Tedeschi told us he got 28hp from his 2Fast Piaggio dragster but that kind of power doesn't come cheap, digital inner rotor ignitions, custom pipes, vforce reeds, special manifold are the least of the parts needed to make even 24hp but to get to that level requires a lot of patience, knowledge & most of all $$$.

btw i'm very familiar with your engine b'coz i have been dragracing Yamaha Jogs since 2000 maybe i could be of some assistance to you, i'm also currently in the process of building the engine that you seek but trust me it's not easy to get hold of the parts you're looking for.

tell me what setup do you run on your quad?
Click to expand...

Massimo doesn't uses inner rotor kit but the Leonelli outer. And if I know well it can do 30-31 hp. You can easily hit the 25-28 hp with the right tuning.


This kit will be good for a racing quad!

But for a quad he need a custom made exhaust!!
 
i'm currently building a 2Fast Yamaha Jog for a friend of mine & i measured the OD of the crank & it turned out to 74,45mm so i had bored out my carters to 75,5mm instead of 76mm, it sounds close but it has 0,50mm clearance on all sides.

forget the MHR VL14 reedvalves the VFORCE3 reedvalve has a +1hp advantage even if you tune the hell out of the VL14, i see no need for a 30 or 32mm carb the Keihin PWK28 is just what i would use for your quad, i'd rather have more flexibility & tuneability with a 28 carb rather than a pain in the ass 30/32 carb.

you would need a good pipe to work with a 2Fast kit but as Roost said there's not a pipe available in the market for the 2Fast kit except if you have one custom made, i'm currently testing a Yasuni C21 it might not be the best pipe for it but what the heck it sure beats using an MHR Team 2006 pipe, my other choices for a pipe would be the Metrakit Prorace (type III) & the Polini Evo2 if you're looking for a pipe with a wide powerband.

for the intake manifold i have tested much of what the market has to offer (MHR shortneck, Malossi aluminum, KOSO black ported etc.) but the best i have tried to date is the Metrakit highmount intake manifold, it's a true manifold for 28mm & 30mm carbs but it needs a little work in order to get the best out of it, i have the only one in my country & the MK distributor is regretful that he sold it to me b'coz i had a wonderful feedback.

for ignition a digital inner rotor ignition would help tremendously, my friend is eyeing a PVL freely programmable ignition but it's so hard to get hold of that stuff so for now we are using my MHR/Selettra digital inner rotor ignition to get some feedback, if there's no chance to get the PVL programmable ignition we'd just have to settle for the next best thing; Kundo PVL digital inner rotor ignition.

you already have a good transmission in there & you can carry it over to the 2Fast engine, the Malossi Overrange kit is quite good out of the box for your application but for mine i had to "work" on it & got great results as i have shaved more than a second off my ET comparted with an out of the box overrange kit.

for the Malossi delta clutch the best clutch bell to use is the MHR Wing bell, this combination rocks for my application but it needs to be sanded from time to time when the surface where the clutch lining beds into gets glazed.
 
well if you have time why dont you experiment a little bit and adapt something like a 125 or 85cc motocross cylinder on the engine, if i had the money.......
where r u from unisonracing
 
Wow,
I knew there were pro's in here! But, WoW
You guy will get your brains picked over the next 4 weeks on this project. We did a dino on a metrakit sp 70 kit today with a 44mm crank and stock polini bearings and it was all ok till she fraged at 10500 rpm and 9.7hp at 70* the motor temp was only 107* and the gas temp was 138* max The head seems to be a very poor aluminum with some air and lots of micro cracks. We looked at in under x-ray at mr friends office and see a lot of cracks that have not yet come out. The piston and rings looked good and only had damage from the frag not heat or squish. So, I figured this was just a fluke and we set up a second test after lunch. 12000rpm 15hp and a 40:1 mix. We just can not seem to get the hp we were told this head will do? Well, I was on the phone to my whole sale with a lot of questions. The second head started to heat up on the x port and so we tore down the 2nd test and found some strange color and pitting. We showed our L.A. Sleave guy the heads and he said they looked as if the ni-sal was not at the correct acid level and to much electric or time in the bath at the factory. So, the idea of the metrakit cyclinder kinda is not the way we will be going for this year. Although the frag was not what I thought it would be like (just shut off and it was over) As far as the rm85cc motor, it would be a great choice if our axle was left side drive. Our axle is a a right side drive eton kind. we also can not mod the frame or it puts us into the mod 90cc class and put us in with kids with 5 or 6 years under there belt and $11000 cobras with all the motor mods at 32hp+ The 85cc shifter class is the money class right now. I wish we could just bolt in one of our cr85 strokers and show them what 43hp looks like! But, my kid is not at that level yet. The shop I work for will let me have a crate motor from honda if I want, but that is a few years away yet......:) Lets come up with a jog build first......So here it goes......

Lets pick a head first!
Say something 70cc to 90cc that can do 21hp or better proven safe.
What do you guys think?
We should do the best price for the HP.
I will watch this post till nov. 8th 2006 and chose what you guys think is the best cycliner. Then we will move on to each part and see if we can come up with a killer motor that will last a few races. As, I stated before we will put you all on our atv logo's and web site for the help. Yes, we will give you all a link to your site also.....If you say it is ok!
 
70cc making 21hp out of the box? it can be done & it has been done, here's the recipe to get such hp;

MHR Team 7T
MHR Team crank
VFORCE3 reedvalves
Malossi digital inner rotor
tuned carters
MK 28/30 intake manifold
Keihin PWK28 carb
Yasuni C21

some tuners here managed to get 22,5hp from an untuned Team 7T cilinder using Yasuni C21 pipe just hope you don't get a cilinder that has poor casting precision or you'll gonna have to go in there with a grinder & correct it.
 
2F4R Cylinder kit and crankshaft are no doubt good thing to purchase and every single penny is worthed, however the availability of the kit is very limited... As far as i know they were only 60 minarelli kits created, 10 of that are the 1st batch and 50 were the second production. If you buy the kit directly to Massimo (TRT) it would cost roughly 850UERO plus shipping which is another 50EURO then if you reside here in the states(USA) like me another 45USD for the bank transfer for thats the type of payment Massimo requires.

I waited long for that cylinder and i tell you... damn its worthwhile!!!

Along with the kit get yourself a PWK28mm carb with Vforce3 reedvalve... Pipe is another problem for you will be needing a custom pipe designed for your 80cc kit. Fortunately there are some nice guys out here that is willing to build one for you with 180EURO price plus shipping and bank transfer fee again!!!

Going FA2T is not cheap but the feeling, once you cross that finish line FIRST is priceless!!!
 
TrueOverrev,
Have you delt with either TRT or MHR?
2f4r seems to be what I am looking for and now I am told by others, that the 2f4r is in the range of 26+ hp with ease. How long do you think it will last for Mini Quad racing. We run 3, 4 lap sets and 26 races in all. How hard is it to get this stuff here in the US? So, you also say we need a pipe just for this app! A Koso mini atv pipe will not work? Who do you think can make a atv pipe fit our mini atv. MetraKit also makes a min atv pipe and we have access to one of them. This is going to be a little specialized and I hope MHR or TRT can take it on. I will give them both some details and see where it leads. Again, thanks for the info and keep it comming........on the pipe I will need some imput as we can not use a moped pipe, it would get knocked off every jump. Do you think MHR or TRT would also take on the pipe......???? :}
 
If I where you, I would go for the MHR Speed 7T setup. You got there a good working product, lots of aftermarket stuff for it and the prices are acceptable.

You can buy also buy a Speed 7T T cylinder. That one is factory tuned by Malossi and Malossi gives up 24 hp for that cylinder!

The only thing is, that for the 7T T cylinder you have to get the TI T Malossi crank (rod). And that's kinda expensive. It's because the 7t T has a pistonpen size 13. Also the T cylinder kit doesn't come cheap. Retailersprice at 550 euro :O

Here in Holland we have one sprinter, that does 24.3 hp (at backwheel) out of normal Speed 7T (it's tuned by themselfs).

Like Tiba said, a good casting example of the normaal MHR Speed 7T version will give you 22 hp or more.

Another fact is that the 7T version is a real race cylinder. It has tremendus power output in the middle / higher rpm.
 
For your application Malossi MHR 7T and MHR TEAM crank will do the job. Malossi is tested in circuit racing. Then again you need to have a pipe. a good working modified pipe. Its not hard to get the kit 2F4R its just the availability is the problem its very limited. but try shooting an email to Massimo if they have another one in handy. Whatever kit you decide also get some extra pistons and rings, belts for it will wear down FAST!

Goodluck
 
True true,

I recommand to change piston piston(ring), belt, springs etc every 2 races and replaces all bearings after 8 driving hours.

After one season replace all transmission parts (like vario, poullies, clutch etc)
 
Wow, Great info! Ok, so now I am looking at 2 cyclinders. What is the $ dif of the Mhr vs TRT and how close are they for power vs dollar? Also does any one know of a atv pipe builder that can make a pipe as per our specs..... Or is there a kit we can weld up our self?
 

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