"New" Gilera runner

elias

El Amo del Merol
Hello everybody... it´s been a while. I just got back to scootering and got a 180cc 2 stroke gilera runner.
It´s supposed to have just 4,500 km in the odo but the previous owner had it in oblivion for a couple years.
Any way, my question is this: I was thinking on de-restricting the exhaust pipe under the engine and adding a K&N air filter, but I read in a Runner group forum that air filter really increase gas consumption.
Any ideas regarding that? Is this true? One of the main ideas of having a scooter to move around town is not driving my huge PickUp truck burning dino-fuel like there´s no tomorrow and I really wouldn´t want to be spending lots on gas.
I´m geting about 150Km/tank... is this average?
Thanks for any comments about this.
 
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Hello everybody... it´s been a while. I just got back to scootering and got a 180cc 2 stroke gilera runner.
It´s supposed to have just 4,500 km in the odo but the previous owner had it in oblivion for a couple years.
Any way, my question is this: I was thinking on de-restricting the exhaust pipe under the engine and adding a K&N air filter, but I read in a Runner group forum that air filter really increase gas consumption.
Any ideas regarding that? Is this true? One of the main ideas of having a scooter to move around town is not driving my huge PickUp truck burning dino-fuel like there´s no tomorrow and I really wouldn´t want to be spending lots on gas.
I´m geting about 150Km/tank... is this average?
Thanks for any comments about this.

Hello Elias!....good to read you here.......

Remember the pics I sent you about how to de-restrict your stock exhaust?, I got them from Narx....I'm sure he or BigB can tell you more about removing the factory restrictor & results.

Best Regards!
 
You proably still got the 22mm Dell Ortho carb on?

Loose that carb. That is not a good carb, difficult to setup and won't preform any better as a 21mm carb. I could be, if you instal a bigger carb and adjust that well, it could save you gas. The more efficient it burns gas, the better gas consumption you get...

150 km/tank is reasonable for a 2stroke scooter. But like I said, could be better with a good adjusted setup. I wouldn't add a K&N filter, since it won't give you any more preformance, only more noise and more fuel consumption.

Maybe get a Malossi Red Sponge Filter that fits the orginal filter house + 25mm Dell Ortho carb. That carb is easy to setup and preforms great!
 
Hi Elias.
Regarding exhaust header modification, there should be like 1 hp increase in top end but some say there could be some loss of low end torque. I really cant say because I modified my exhaust header before I tried the engine with stock header so I cant tell about the power difference. But following my common sens, 27mm exhaust outlet is too small for the amount of gases 180cc (actualy 175 cc :) ) engine burns.

I think 150 km/tank is ok if you have 12 liter tank. I get like 7 liter/100 km in the city and maybe a little less than 5 liter/100 km on the open road with a stock carb.

I think bigB ment 20.5 carb as this is a stock carb for this engine.
I would get rid of the auto choke. I converted my carb to manual choke, available at scooter center for a few euros, and I needed to enrich my idling circuit which suggests that choke wasnt closing all the way. I've never trusted auto chokes anyway.

I wouldnt suggest using an open filter as its really noisy and you will have to rejet the carb. But if you want to mess with the carb you can modify your airbox. With a stock air box air path from the airbox intake to the carb is very long. If you open up the air box you will see how long air has to travel to the sponge than back again to the carb. I can send you pics how to do it if you like. That will give you shorter air path and better throttle response.

If you still have stock variator, you could drop roller weight by a gram, it will run better :)
 
Hi Big B & Narx!

Thanks for your advise for my good friend Elias.

He lives in Guadalajara, Mexico....1.600 meters over sea level (5,200 Ft), don't you think it is better to get a 24 or 26 carb for this monster????

Also he was looking to buy a Leo Vince exhaust for his bike, which do you think is best Leo Vince or Jolly Moto, for std. set-up...maybe with Malossi Varietor.
 
A bigger carb is definitely a good upgrade. I kinda don't like dellorto 25, but its easy to jet.
Dellorto VHST flatslide carbs are available in 26mm and 28mm sizes, it should be a nice carb and costs 100 euro.

That LV pipe is crap. I dont know about jolly moto, but its definitely better than LV.
 
A bigger carb is definitely a good upgrade. I kinda don't like dellorto 25, but its easy to jet.
Dellorto VHST flatslide carbs are available in 26mm and 28mm sizes, it should be a nice carb and costs 100 euro.

That LV pipe is crap. I dont know about jolly moto, but its definitely better than LV.

Which is your favorite pipe for this engine?....on a street racer set-up?
 
Hey everybody! Thanks for all the responses... I gotta check in here more often...
Well, this is all very interesting. This past days I have been disassembling and assembling my scooter plastics to check the general condition of the frame, plastics and installing some neons... they won´t make me go any faster but they sure look cool ;-).

So... I think I might be ordering a bigger carb from scooter center. Now, my idea for this scooter is not really street racing, more like just have a nice performing scoot that helps me move around town and shame a few 150cc hondas and even a few cars. So far, the scooter as it is, its able to do that... It does seem a bit slower than when I got it but back then I was getting 85Km/tank. :O So, which carb do you guys recommend for getting a slightly better performance than stock? Also I have ZERO experience jetting the carb, so one that´s easy to jet is a big PLUS!!!!

Having a good go from zero it´s basic for me to keep as far away from red light traffic as possible in a short space, so if there´s a chance removing the exhaust header will make me lose low end torque I might not do that.

Narx, I have indeed taken apart the air box, and I did notice the long way the air has to travel to get back to the carb. Those pics will be very much appreciated. The malossi red sponge is also in my list of future upgrades. I still have the stock variator and I might keep it for a while so the 1 gram lighter rollers sound nice... err... what weight is 1 gram lighter that stock?

So far the best upgrade I´ve made was removing the lousy battery that kept spilling acid all over the exhaust and plastics under it. I got a new sealed battery today. It doesn´t fit exactly in, but since it´s sealed I could place it on it´s side. I also got some progrip grips and the neons I was talking about above.

Again thanks a lot for the answers!
 
I would get rid of the auto choke. I converted my carb to manual choke, available at scooter center for a few euros, and I needed to enrich my idling circuit which suggests that choke wasnt closing all the way. I've never trusted auto chokes anyway.

Sorry if this seems WAY TO NEWBIE but... what is all that?
 
Elias,
then I guess you should get a dellorto 25. It's easy to jet and it fits stock manifold and airbox boot. None of the other carbs I mentioned don't. It's sure a big difference over stock, and you can keep good fuel economy too. I guess Mexicano could help you a bit with carb jetting :p

You could also mount a stiffer clutch springs for better launch. There's malossi set available with 3 different spring sets.

Stock rollers are 15.7 gram, 14.5 gram should be fine.

For the airbox, you should close stock airbox air intake and drill holes on the back of the airbox. You can put tubes in the holes for better air flow and less noise.
Here' are some pics:

[ir]http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u225/narxonja/ostalo/dsc02595rv7.jpg[/ir]

[ir]http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u225/narxonja/ostalo/dsc02587vm0.jpg[/ir]

Then you just have to secure the sponge in place. Just make sure no air passes to the carb under the sponge.

airbox11.jpg
 
Thanks for the pics narx!
What kind of tubes did U use? those look great and almost factory with the conic opening...
Now regarding the carb I´m a bit confused since there seem to be several kinds of carbs with letters for the name... in scooter center I found this 140€
carb kit.... is this the one you are talking about?
http://scooter-center.com/catalog/images/products/big5106.jpg
Unfortunatley it´s not instock... :(
How should I look for it? maybe I can get it from e-bay.

EDIT:

PS: I found this one on UK eBay for 150pounds....(187€)


LAMBRETTA CARB KIT DELLORTO PHBL 25MM JETTED NEW !
 
This is not my airbox, I have pictures of my modified airbox on my another computer, unfortunately my home network is down at the moment so I can post them when I fix it.

Those tubes for the airbox can be bought at audio shops, they are bass reflex tubes used for DIY subwoofer building, but you can use any other tube.

That carb in the link you posted is malossi carb kit, if I remember correctly you get an open air filter, choke cable etc. with it.

Here is just the carb, but it's also out of stock at the moment.

http://scooter-center.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1178&cPath=4403_4414

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/page...XPLODIM=px&_requested_page=/pages/details.php

You can look on ebay, or any other scooter shop.187e is way too much for it, especialy if you don't need the filter. Choke cable with a knob can be bought separately, its not expensive.

I'm in a little rush at the moment, so I can help you find the carb in some other scooter shop later.

p.s. Here are malossi carb kits, but i really don't know why are they so expensive.

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/page...XPLODIM=px&_requested_page=/pages/details.php

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/page...XPLODIM=px&_requested_page=/pages/details.php
 
I'm in a little rush at the moment, so I can help you find the carb in some other scooter shop later.

Don´t worry about it! on the contrary, thanks a lot!
I contacted a mechanic today that seems well versed in 2 tack engines, so maybe he can adjust my current cabr to my liking without going through to much gas. We´ll see... the rollers I think will be a deal and I´ll try to get to work on the airbox this weekend. I´ll post pics when I´m done!
 
No problem, you're welcome.
As I said you could drop fuel consumption a bit by converting the carb to maunal choke if your is faulty.
I don't know which year your bike is but some of them are jetted too rich. My carb came with 90 mainjet, now I am running 88 and needle one position lower than stock. I also modified my slide valve for leaner mixture at the small throttle openings.
If you are not sure what you are doing, I suggest leaving those modifications to someone with experience with carb jetting.
 
Thanks Narx, indeed I am on the hunt for a qualified mechanic now... I have done some styling mods to the bike and I´m going to look for those bass reflex tubes in a bit. I will post pics as soon as I get them.
 
Aloha, One of the best aftermarket pipes for the 172-180 is the Polini. Most aftermarket pipes will give LESS power than the stock Runner 2T pipe which is very good for a stock pipe. frank
 
Thanks for the post adas! I am thinking on keeping the stock pipe for a while since is not easy to get those around here... I would have to order it from Europe like Mexicano does.
His advantage is that he can tweek his own carb. ;)
 
Except leo vince, tecnigas and few other crappy (cheap) pipes, most popular pipes will make more power than stock especially if cylinder timing is modified to match pipe working rpm.
 
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